[jasonski]

Hey guys i was just reading an intresting artical on softpedia.com

Regarding a woman who sued nokia and won!!!! for selling a sub standard mobile phone. the link is below:

 

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Can-a-Simple-User-Sue-Nokia-and-Win-Of-Course-79489.shtml

 

I will be doing the same if nokia dont sort this mess out and start communicating with their customers.

All nokia have done is leave us all here totally in the dark guesing and wishing for an unproven update that might not even solve half of the issues.

 

I think we have enough ammo to take on the giant Nokia.

Please share your thoughts and lets club together instead of been walked over by Nokia and take legal action!.

[jasonski]

If every one on the forum who has had nothing but problems with there n97 clubbed together maybe we could take some legal action against nokia. As things are, nokia are not even listening to the complaints, then again maybe they are but are not even bothered to get a rep on the forum to answer any of the questions and thoughts  of the consumer!

up  untill now I feel each and every one of us has been sadly been ripped off for a flagship nokia product thats failed in the most basic of functions! I am going to speak to a few consumer groups and see where i stand on taking legal action.

Its all good getting a new firmware but what about the months of misery and feeling that your hard earnt cash has just been flushed down the toilet, Its embaressing that nokia have nothing to say or answer for ! ! !

If anyone is intrested in clubbing together to take action pm me.

and we can open a new thread.

n97 owner(uk)

[adrianhughes]

Bear in mind that this is probably an isolated case of this occurring. Don't extrapolate into thinking that this would apply to users reporting N97 issues (which a lot of it seems to be attributed to immature firmware, and users stubbornness to accept that nothing is perfect out of the box, and in time it will be made a stable phone). Patience and simples understanding of the processes behind phone manufacturing is warranted in these cases. And FYI, although not often, there are reps on these boards that do answer questions such as the release of the upcoming PR 2.0 firmware for the N97.

If you do have issues with your own phone, please take them up with Nokia yourself and click on the Contact Us link at the top of this page, or call them direct in your own country. This is mainly a user to user forum, and is reserved for those who have genuine enquiries for phone problems. Constructive advice is always given on these boards, and posting a thread such as this is really a waste of space for those of us here who spend our hard-earned time on helping others with genuine phone problems. 

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[jasonski]

thank you adrian hughes for four comments, but I have experienced problems with my phone, hence why I have posted my comments on the forum. I also read multiple threads and comments with people who had exactly the same concerns as myself and were not able to resolve them or have any posotive help from Nokia themselves, which is why I thought it was appropriate to also raise my concerns to see if everyone wanted to put their heads together and finally resolve the problem.I have in fact contacted Nokia, but to no avail.  What would you suggest if Nokia dont want to help and keep fobbing you off with options that do not exactly resolve the problem.   I am frustrated  because when  you spend that amount of money on a handset, you expect it to function in the appropriate way and as a customer you should not have to wait for updates and new firmware. Nokia should not have released the phone until properly tested and all the correct/improved/appropriate firmware was already on the phone, to stop customers having problems and being frustrated. WIth technology these days you shouldnt have to suffer with these issues on a phone like simple things of your phone freezing etc especially on a phone that costs £500.  Nokia rushed this phone out of the door, due to profit losses, and losing market shares to Apple iphone and other competitors,  prior to fully testing the actual phone.

[adrianhughes]

Well it is the same process for any phone, regardless of the manufacturer involved. I have a N78 and at the beginning, there were many complaints on these boards and reportings of bugs (both by others and myself), but not at any stage did I get frustrated and suggest absurd avenues of action such as legal action. Others did, but they did not understand the processes. And it appears you do not too unfortunately.

The fact is that when phones are tested by Nokia or any other manufacturer, it is simply too complex to eradicate and deal with all the bugs possible in a firmware. Read this article for a more detailed explanation: http://mobile.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/8853_Bugs_In_Firmware_Are_Here_To_S.php So it is not a realistic expectation to have bug-free firmware when you purchase the phone (after it has only been released on the market), due to the hundreds of testers Nokia may have, they can only ascertain other instabilities in the firmware AFTER the phone has been released and exposed to millions of users. I've explained this many times to other users who have posted the same question.

Just to nail the points home, I have had my N78 for a year now, and it is stable, fast and a pleasure to use. A real joy, in fact. At the start, it was rather unstable and would restart on me and run sluggishly and have a slew of instabilities. But now its working great and it has only crashed two or three times in the four months or so since I've had the newest firmware. The bugs WILL be ironed out, its just a matter of whether you have the patience and understanding to go along with this, or be like other users moaning about the problems Nokia engineers are aware of and are working on continuously, that inevitably results in a stable product. 

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[dchewitt]

The problem is though, by the time all the bugs have been resolved and the phone is a pleasure to use it has taken so long that most people will be ready for an upgrade and move onto the next latest phone and the cycle starts again!

[incey2000]

To Adrian Hughes

It's people like you that allow Nokia to release phones before they are ready.

can you tell me why i should wait many months before my £500+ phone works as it should?

wake up and smell the **bleep**in roses Nokia are a joke and i will never buy one of there phones again.

[DiddyOt]

Adrian, with the greatest of respect you are wrong.

We are not talking about a phone with a few rough edges here and there, we are talking about fundamental usability issues. Issues that actually prevent the use of the device for the purposes for which it was marketed and sold.

We are all fully aware that we don't live in an ideal world and we can't assume that things are 100% perfect, but the N97 is so flawed that it should NEVER have been released to the paying public in it's current state.

I received my brand new N97 3 months ago on the UK "three" network. It had V10 software and crashed when powering up the phone for the first time, the second power-up generated an "Out of memory" error. I immediately updated to V11 (which is still the latest for my product code). Even then it had multiple crashes when answering or hanging up the phone. I then debranded so that I could update to V12. Now it is improved but still appalling. Camera regularly generates "Unexpected Error has occure please reboot" messages, hanging up calls still causes random crashes and the unlock (from auto-lock) fails randomly. I'm pretty sure that even if Nokia had just ONE product tester then they would conclude that the N97 does not work, so how do 100 Nokia product testers conclude "Yep, that phone's good to go, another job well done (congratulatory pats on backs all round)".

I am an electronic product designer (with embedded microcontrollers and many 1000's of lines of code). I ensure that our products fullfill EVERY single specification claim that we make, that's our minimum standard. We do indeed issue updates, to add extra features and improve methods later on, but we make sure that the fundamental product functionality is right from the word go.

Nokia are doing several things wrong here (and therefore attracting legal action). First their products are not fit for purpose (we're not just talking about facebook apps not working, we're talking about making and receiving calls). Second, there are hardware faults that no firmware update in the world will solve (such as camera lens scratching) and many people select the N97 for the lovely Carl Zeiss optics that Nokia love to trumpet about! Thirdly, the customer communication is vague to say the least, it is EXTREMELY rare to actually hear from a Nokia rep and we've yet to hear a single candid and honest admission of the disatisfaction that we're all experiencing.

Nokia should have done this better on every level. It is not simply a matter of fussy consumers, this is absolutely fundamental. And now I find myself in a fight with my network because they say "You're in an 18 month contract mate, you can leave us if you pay £525, and if you want to sort any phone problems then speak to Nokia".

So here we are....

[jasonski]

response to Adrian, it sounds as if you are a Nokia employee or a rep using a username to stick up for them.  A phone should be able to do the simple things like answer a call, which is basic technology, and sometimes I cant even do that, how can you say that you should be understanding when Ive paid out over £500. There is no excuse or reasoning behind it and at the end of the day its the fault of Nokia.  I would be fully understanding if Nokia would help in the matter and resolve the issues but they dont and as one of the users on here said, they just quote the basic quotes of sorry we cannot help. A customer has every right to complain when a product they have purchased is not functioning as stated.  I dont know where you get some of your comments from, my only thoughts are that you are some sort of Nokia rep sticking up for them. Basically, I am better off at the moment, buying at £20 basic phone, so I can do the simple things like make and receive a call!!!

UK - N97 owner

[pspbricker]

This is a strange one. I'm hearing so many complaints from N97 users - yet also there are many happy users, myself included. There are four main problems with this phone; silly lens cover which scratches the lens - bad manufacturing and god awful testing. Should have been spotted before final manufacturing. Processing power is a tad too slow - 424Mhz is fine for a simple phone, but can become strained doing the graphical effects desired with the UI (transitions, swiping, theme effects etc). Available memory - biggest complaint which is being addressed to some extent by Nokia with the next firmware, and finally the Series 60 OS, which arguably doesn't handle touchscreen phones well enough.

Having said all that, I've never had any of the problems discussed in some of these posts? Why? I'm curious. Could it be down to carrier branding? My N97 is unbranded, and I had V12 installed within 10  days which has made it a lot stabler than branded phones locked onto using V11. I've never had the memory problems - obvious things like reinstalling apps on the E: drive help, and I'm perfectly happy with the keyboard, screen responsiveness, software availability, and look of the phone. There have been stability problems; I might have to pull the battery out maybe once every two days - unacceptable yes, but hopefully fixed soon.

I've seriously enjoyed things like QIK, Fring and Midomi, Ovi Suite 2 looks promising, V2.0 firmware looks sweet on paper, and the only phone I would (and will) swap this for is the N900. I've tried HTC Leo, Hero, Omnia Pro, Iphone, and (oof) SE Satio and have come away contended with my N97. Yes, some of the problems mentioned in these and other posts should not happen, but they are not series wide problems (across the range) as there are countless N97 users (There are over 2 million of us apparently) who haven't had the problems mentioned. Sooo what are we doing right, or you unlucky people doing wrong?

[zyxma]

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adrianhughes wrote:

(...)(which a lot of it seems to be attributed to immature firmware, and users stubbornness to accept that nothing is perfect out of the box, and in time it will be made a stable phone). (...)

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I don't understand what you are saying. Paying 500gpb you should expect it to work properly. Buying an iphone 1g you knew it didn't support 3g and many other features. You are having a laugh saying this................ and I agree with jasinski, I will go to the court if v20 wont make any improvement.

[lgkahn1]

any of you that say you are not having any problems..

1, have you tried setting an custom rintone..

2. have you tried using gps to any degree.. ie more than a few times.. i have gone through 2 phones and the gps stops working.. and both have the bug where the wrong ringtone sounds..

3. also one had the lens scratch issue.

[B9099]

@adrianhughes

With all due respect, you clearly do not own an N97. And if you do, I am shocked that you are using a Nokia "dissatified customer handling" line on us YOUR fellow users.

I am not going to be joining any legal action taken by owners of the handset. But I will say that your line on this has effectively added fuel to the flames. I Enjoy helping users just as much as you do. And appreciate all the help I get from people in forums all over the net. But I WILL NEVER side with a multinational like Nokia that has not even attempted to open a dialogue with its long suffering n97 customers (THE PHONE WAS LAUNCHED IN JULY FOR GOD'S SAKE)... AND before you say it... A "vague statement" saying that our problems will be solved in the coming weeks does not count.

[Zoharish]

i guess the crashes and the stability is from overloading the system,

a small app not fully functional (even if it's a sleep) with a bit of a bug might cause a lot of problems...

perhapes the network is to blame...

or...RM changes a lot and because of that files are a bit messy..after all n97 is not a done-till-the-end phone..

so it's either these reasons or...n97 is actually a robot whos gone wild...otherwise how would you explain mine does that and yours doesnt?

[odokefrey]

In my country I will not have a chance for such a sue. But I encourage you to do it where ever it is possible. I hope Nokia gets is a s s whipped for N97 an its **bleep** of support. I have never been that disappointed and after several Nokia mobiles Nokia is now on my no-go-list until signs appear they changed a lot.

I will not name all the bugs and unpleasant things here that I had encountered, as its poor performance is widely documented throughout the forum.

And the latest firmware update *lol* yeah right. Big thing. It killed my Email and Facebook settings and does not allow to configure my imap email account anymore as the 'assistant' is sooo smart. And first action of N97 after update is to freeze completely. Big stupid award for the team!

Above this, support does really worth **bleep** here. Never get answers to problems (just from users, but not from team I mean). So do not be shy to claim allot in this forum. I doubt they will read or care.

And to make a point (because, what to buy if nokia is on my no-go-list), I had the chance to compare in detail the old(!) IPhone with my N97, because a friend lent it to me for some hours for that purpose. It was hard for me not to let go my tears. Honestly, even hardware of N97 is way better, software of IPhone seems to be programmed so smartly that it performes much(!) faster and flawless. (E.g. even display of IPhone has less pixels, you see more of a webpage due to very intelligent displaying.) And this is the comparison to the old Iphone. Imagine what the new one is like with 4 times faster processing than the old one. What a waste of money I did with buying N97. Unfortunately I gave my last money atm for it, so I am not able to switch, otherwise I would do directly! 

Good luck to sue nokia!! 

[St3ph3n]

They probably want to use recycable materials, thats why the n97 has issues like creaking battery cover.

Regarding the firmware, Nokia probably thought since Symbian Os is the most popular operating system in the world right now and that s60 is the most used right now, they wanted to stick with the design. Though the sales are going down. Android is estimated to be the second popular OS in the future after Symbian.

Message Edited by St3ph3n on 25-Oct-2009 10:29 PM

[timmyjo]

The phone has been in existence (with Nokia) for almost a year and is still not working as was promised. Why should we accept this? I paid $600 (US) for mine in June. The camera issues alone suggest that Nokia didn't even "try it" before shipping. I also had a flash issue on the left side of my pictures, but altered the hardware to take care of that. After replacing the camera side housing several times, I now know NOT to use the "protective" sliding camera door. Notice the N97 mini doesn't have the same door? Doesn't the N97 also have the firmware we 're waiting for? Other than these EXTREMELY OBVIOUS camera issues, the hardware seems very good. The firmware does suck. They've already sold several million units. Shouldn't they take a break from counting the $ to make the product actually work? 

[fbello]

For the next time Is better to wait until they release 3 or 4 versions of firmwares then go to shop and buy it! " 1 year after they release the phone " . we know they want to just sell!!!

Every body is saying maemo n900 is better phone so they sell a lot ..... and is gonig to happen the same ..... no software and full of bugs ... an very expencive, so we all will be crying here !!!

Now and using n86 8mp until they release n97 v2, i buy it also, ...but it would not not buy
maemo n900, until i start reading that is software is more or less stable and is little bugs.. it is normal some bugs, and some software compatible out!!
Is 1 year since n97 out and we paid in advantage!!!!

We never learn
Regars Fbello

[fbello]

They make a campain to sell playing with customer!!! they have their bosses saying the phone have to be out!! they reduce personal in developing good firmwares and put in then to work in n900,they now release date of n900 no matter if firmware is good or not , to start selling. thats they way they make money!!

[michaels]

Whilst we at Nokia Support Discussions have sympathy with any user who is experiencing problems with their Nokia device, we remind you that this is a peer-to-peer troubleshooting forum, and the rules by which we are governed do not permit the discussion of possible, planned or pending cases against Nokia; so regrettably we are obliged not to permit this thread to continue.

We would urge all users to ensure to contact your local Nokia Care Point or your country's Nokia Care support line as a first step in resolving your issues.