[Balthasar]

Good Day to All,

 

                        To start off, please allow me to explain my situation . I had bought the N97 in Singapore from a Nokia store about a month ago and was happily using it (for a week) until the software update became an issue alongside with some saddening customer relation experience.

 

                        For the record, My N97 has a product code of 0586300 and this was verified, through the forums (my gratitude to the helpful persons out there) as well as the helpline, that it was an operator branded (M1) N97 and  that usually it should not be the case since i bought the phone at a Nokia store at Full Retail Price with supposedly no strings attached. It came to my attention that there is a difference between operator branded phones as well as those unbranded and usually, those from Nokia stores are unbranded. As such, i decided to head down to the Nokia Official shop which had sold me the phone in the hope that they could give me some explaination at least.

 

                         That decision to head down was the start of all the problems and disappointments. I had wanted to avoid imposing on the time and efforts of the others especially over the forums where fellow users actually takes the time to aid others, however, i had to resort to this alternative as i have exhausted all other means to no avail. My apologies for that in advance as i have never meant for inconviniences.

 

                          With that, please allow me to continue. At the nokia store's Nokia Care Center, i was attended to by one of the nokia shirt-clad person sitting behind one of the numerous service booths. I explained to him the aforementioned situation (that i have called the helpline and read the forums and my doubts) and enquired whether there was anything that could be done, highlighting that a firware update to an unbranded version would sufficiently solve the problem.To my surprise, he started off by saying that:

                          
                         1. There is no such thing as operator branding. The product codes are merely ways for them to identify the phones for their convenience. He goes on to say that even if there are such operator branding, "it is our internal information and we do not have to release it to you".  I thought, how internal can the information be if it is readily available over the internet and even on the help page of NSU but fine, that does not matter so long as he will unbrand the phone for me.

                          I then brought out the paper with the information that the helpline has given me, including the product codes' significance and the software version ending with .227.02 as a branded version and asked whether he could do the firmware update to an unbranded version. This is where he insisted again that:

                          2. The operator branding does not exist and even if it does, it is internal information. I then asked whether the firmware release would be dependant on the product codes. He said "if it is available then it is available for all the phones". I replied that his answer contradicts with what the help section on NSU says or what the helpline mentioned. He then asked me: " why would it be different dates? what for?" and i answered him "because not all operators endorse the latest software versions available" and he told me something shocking:

                          3. " even if those people get it earlier, they are just being the ones doing the testing. Only when they feedback that there are no problems then we release it " - does this mean that users are actually the beta testers? oh dear.He even went on to say " those helpline centers are from malaysia or india. they may not know much about these things" - how degrading. who is he to judge them?

                          Tired of talking to a persistent person, i decided to give up trying to convince him to give me an explaination and simply asked for a firmware update. He then said that the firmware is the latest and there would not be a point. I told him that unbranded would have a C01.01 rather than .227.02, to which he said again that he had never heard of branded unbranded or any differing versions of the firmware. To add insult to injury, he added the same sentence again " even if there are, those are internal information, we do not have to release it to you."

                          He then went to the *#0000# and said "this is what you have to see. v12. customers do not have  to know anything else. once the update is available, it will be available. just check through the nsu" I asked whether he is sure there is no such thing as unbranded firmware. He then asked for my warranty card and asked his friend to take down the phone IMEI number who then went inside the backroom to do who knows what before coming out and saying that there is no such thing. BUT if i want to, i can try leaving my phone there for 2 hours so that they can TRY updating it "even though he have not seen any C01.01 firmware before". By then i already do not have a single speck of trust in them and i must be insane if i actually decided to leave it to them. Who knows what it will come back as?I decided to just thank him for his time and walked off before which he told me " that helpline person just confuse the customer with the information. maybe you would like to call again".

                           And i did call again. the person on the helpline was extremely supportive. it felt universes apart from the person at the Nokia "Care Center". He told me he was not sure, went to ask his technician and verified that there is such a thing as operator branding and there is a difference in timing sometimes. So clear and succinct.  Now, i am still at a loss as to what to do.  Whose version should  i believe? and what is there to do now to rectify the situation? I certainly do not fancy paying the full retail price to get a branded phone when another person paying the subsidised price gets the same phone.

                            I hope that i have not been too lengthy as i have really reached my witt's ends and simply wanted to get some opinions and advice where possible with regards to the matter. To fellow users or admins, thank you for lending me a listening ear and if you have any advice, it would be greatly appreciated. To Singapore users, could someone suggest which  Care Center that have rendered good services unlike the one above to me so that i could regain some of my devastated trust in Nokia?

                              I thank all of you for your attention and i wish you a good day. 

Warmest Regards

P.S  On a side note, i asked about the rustling sound made by the phone when slightly shaking and he told me it is not a design fault. the slider needs space to move. or maybe it is the camera cover. How interesting i thought to myself.

[xbungle]

Hello

Here's an extract from the Software Update FAQs #8.

"Nokia produces many different variants of each product (for different countries and languages) and not all variants have the latest Nokia device software. It is our priority to update all variants as quickly as possible, and we apologize for any delay."

and

"Please note that your mobile service provider, operator, or carrier may not have approved the latest Nokia device software available."

I apologize for the information you received from the Nokia Store - please check your Messages.

Regards

-xbungle

[SloughSoldier]

---

Balthasar wrote:

Good Day to All,

                        For the record, My N97 has a product code of 0586300 and this was verified, through the forums (my gratitude to the helpful persons out there) as well as the helpline, that it was an operator branded (M1) N97 and  that usually it should not be the case since i bought the phone at a Nokia store at Full Retail Price with supposedly no strings attached.

Warmest Regards

---

Hello

Here's an extract from the Software Update FAQs #8.

"Please note that your mobile service provider, operator, or carrier may not have approved the latest Nokia device software available."

I apologize for the information you received from the Nokia Store - please check your Messages.

Regards

-xbungle

xbungle,

I think you forgot to answer that mans REAL Question.

The fact that a ''mobile service provider, operator, or carrier may not have approved the latest Nokia device software'' is of no relevance here and has no place in this topic. Balthasar could not have made it any clearer to you that he bought the handset from Nokia Direct.

There is a post here somewhere telling us that "Nokia Do Listen" - Nokia, try reading!

Why would you reply to a post not having read and understood it

Balthasar

The Fact is as I see it. Nokia, A globally known brand, manufacturers of some of the best Smartphones including their FLAGSHIP model, the N97 have not approved / released the latest firmware update known as v20 for its valued Singapore customers. They do have a very good reason for that but will not tell you what that very good reason is. It's company policy, and the fact that you have spent a lot of your hard earned money purchasing that particular handset is not enough to put the company (Nokia) and its corporate secrets at risk. The fact that thousands and thousands of handsets have updated to firmware 2.0 and are complaining that it does not really do anything to improve its reliability should be enough for you not to want it.

Handset Nokia N97 Product variant 0586300 - Singapore CV B is not reliant on any mobile service provider, operator, or carrier to approve the latest Nokia device software.

Balthasar, good luck on getting v20 soon, Happy kinetic scrolling - thats the only thing good about it at the moment.

[lordofdiablo]

Hi Balthasar,

 I am an N97 user(black) with product code 0586300, bought it from Starhub with recontract . I, like you have tried the internet for solutions so that i will able to get v2.0 firmware update. However, the only way i can get v2.0 is to "debrand" by changing my product code. Well as I do not want to lose my warranty i decided not to and wait for the release. I checked again over the internet whether my product code is actually so-called branded.and this is the list of product codes that i found for singapore

0586300: N97 Singapore CV B
0586301: N97 Singapore CV W
0587025: N97 Singtel SG B V1
0587026: N97 Singtel SG W V1

In fact the only models that are so-called branded or network reliant are singtel handsets. Yes we have custom firmware, because that is the Singapore's N97 firmware, that comes with the product code. We have to admit that v2.0 is still not available in Singapore yet, like in the UK.

But from the callcentre that i called, callcentre guy told me that usually after the europe's release of new firmwares, it will take a few weeks before it is available to other countires. So, I guess, we have to wait, or u can try changing your Product code to Europe's product code, and this process is called debranding, however it might void your warranty so, becareful about that.

PS. I never get good services from Wheelock's Nokia service centre and sorry for the bolded words, they are just the important points.

Message Edited by lordofdiablo on 10-Nov-2009 02:46 PM

[Balthasar]

Greetings SloughSoldier,

                                    Thank you for your interest and response to my predicament. I understand your viewpoint that Nokia,as with any other company, would have their share of internal information that should and would not be made available to the public. It was never my intention to have them furnish me with all those internal information as i was merely seeking clarification on information that i had obtained readily from the internet and the helpline which i believe would not be so internal since they are openly available. Is information on branding and product codes really so internal that they have to deny its existence so vehemently? If it is then perhaps i should offer them my apology for finding out about those information.

                                     Also the enquiry i made to them a month ago (a week after getting the phone) when V20 was not available, was for them to do a firmware upgrade to an un-branded version so that when the upgrade is available, i could get it along with the others rather than waiting for the later date as with the branded phones. I was doing what i saw as getting my rights as i was under the assumption that when i purchased the phone from Nokia shop, i would get a no frills, no strings attached phone rather than one which is apperantly operator branded. Maybe i just do not fancy the idea that i might be getting the same phone as someone else who have paid a subsidised price as i might as well do the same and not pay for the full price.

                                      On the same note, i was under the assumption that V20 has become available not long ago in Singapore since there were some users at Hardwarezone who mentioned that they have upgraded to V20 with their local phones without having to "debrand" their phones through the NSU. This was when i became more restless as i thought that this confirmed the fact that the staff had pulled wool over my eyes. Which is why i actually called the Helpline again and then posted here to get some opinions.

                                       The questions that still lingers in my mind would be whether:

                  1. Product codes and branding are internal information that consumers should not be aware of that they had to so vehemently deny it;

                   2. It is thus not possible to accomodate a customer who literally pleaded to have a firmware upgrade to an un-branded firmware.

                                        I have not insisted in any way that they had to release information with regards to the V20 or that they have to make the V20 available to me by hook or by crook. All i wanted was to un-brand my phone so that when the upgrade comes, it would be available to me.

                                         Thank you for your time and i wish you a pleasent day.

Warmest Regards

[Balthasar]

Hi lordofdiablo,

                     Thanks for dropping by. I am aware of those product codes and i was under the assumptions that the product codes would have an impact on the availability of the frimware upgrades as my understanding is that (do correct me if i am wrong), firwares are made available respective to the product codes with the apperant evidence being that when you use the available function over at http://www.nokia-asia.com/get-support-and-software/download-software/device-software-update/can-i-up... the availablility is seemingly sorted out through product codes of which would be different depending on whether the phones are branded or unbranded with branded usually getting it later. 

                      My main issue would be that, rather than V20, why is it that i can not  get a firmware upgrade to an unbranded firmware version so that i could get the V20 when it is made available? Is it because of the product codes that we are aware of as being "internal information"?

                       Thank you for the information on that Care Center as i am still trying to deduce which Care Center if at all should i go to in hope to unbrand my phone as it (i assume) rightfully should be. 

                        To me, a phone is not a toy that can be changed overnight. Once i have bought a phone, i hope that it would last 1-2 years at least and the problems would not stop at V20 should it not be resolved.

Warmest Regards

Message Edited by Balthasar on 10-Nov-2009 04:17 PM

Message Edited by Balthasar on 10-Nov-2009 04:18 PM

[chendry744]

Hi all,

        I am in exactly the same boat as Balthasar. I have emailed nokia care centre in singapore... but as yet no reply.. Given Nokias sterling performance in my previous N97 issues I have little hope of getting the 'unbranded' phone I paid for.

Craig