[otthen]

Well well well,

Looks like I provoked a few points huh, excellent.

Thanks to all who replied, I like a lot of what was said, personally I am all for OTI (Over the internet / USB) firmware upgrades, & like I said in my original posting; if Sony can do it for the PSP I am sure Nokia can do it for their mobiles (makes you wonder why they don't huh?)

I agree with those that said it would be unfair for those who have a genuine problem with their mobile to have to wait longer than those who just want the latest firmware upgrade; also cost would possibly be an issue too, a good point.

The thing is, if Nokia did make OTA/OTI available then this whole cost issue, and the issue of those waiting longer would disappear overnight!

Thanks to all for their comments, appreciate it.

Message Edited by otthen on 14-Aug-2006
11:33 PM

[glennl]

I am all for OTA and USB updates, even motorola is giving updates from their website and SE offers OTA, why is their a SW update option if not available, some problems happren reguallarly and user added firmware would allow nokia to fix certain problems that only happen to certain people. It would also make people allot happier and stop people resorting to illegal methods that voids their warranty

[sysinit]

He he he.

Nah, I didn't really say that to increase KPI, you spend more $$$ on new features. I'm really just giving a lame example on what it take for Nokia or just about any company to do it.

Reality is: more features doesn't mean more sales or more $$$. Likewise, more sales doesn't mean more $$$. E.g. HP was #1 in UNIX market for 2002 to 04, but they didn't make much out of it compared to IBM ranked #3.

As to whether it all ends up 'i just want the latest' is yet to be seen. I've seen enough cases to put reservation on the 'common sense' even if it is backed with studies, and put up a backup plan.

As to losing ground, I'm talking about highend user market which includes me. People that thinks about Windows Mobile or Symbian or Palm OS. Nokia was actually selling me N80 against O2, Dopod, PPC, Treo at their road show 4 months back. When I share my joy and woes of N80 with my colleagues, business partners, customers, they go 'ok, I'll stick to O2/Doppod/PPC/Treo for now'. Fact is the woes overwhelm joy at current stage. Then again, this is within my locale and may change in the future.

I agree that they are still holding their ground. Most of my friends around me, minus a fair number of those in my industry, actually LOVES Nokia, except for a few that are into music or photographics, or those that just don't want a Nokia for whatever the reason may be.

For AP, IMHO, I think Nokia is gaining ground cause its making more miles in the booming mobile market compared to others. Have you tried UI of SE or Samsung? I tell U I hate them. And I'm not alone. Some had grown accustom to them, but a fair amount of folks returned to Nokia just because of UI.

No one can ever be at the top forever, its only a matter of time when Nokia will drop. IBM is a good example, it was #1 before 1998. Look at it now. It had survived the 3 bad years and jumped back, but still hadn't reach its ultimate glory days then.

Just my 2 cents feel. LOL

Cheers. ^_^

[mobilefann]

recent N series have proved to be very very unstable on their initial launch(n91/n80), it really isnt fair when consumers pay high prices and buy handsets only to find out the product is not at all stable. although many forms of testing have been discussed greater emphasis should be given on pre-release user testing.(not consumer testing). to make things worse u NEED to go upto to nokia service centre to get firmware upgrade.(some1 earned many disgruntled customers there)

now coming to the pros and cons of firmware upgrades.

this should have come out ages ago. there is a significant number of people living miles and miles away from NSC's and they must have other options than to drive 45 miles or watever just to get an upgrade on a phone. kinda like driving away even the most loyals to brand. with online support being developed there seems to be hope again.

as for the cons it will have to be fool proof as there are many "paris hiltons" out there that wuld use the software of N70 on a N90 and keep wondering y these updates never work.

good work from nokia though, although a bit late.

cheers

[mac_alex]

The nearest Nokia service center that provide firmware update over 9000km away from me, $40 for shipping and $30 for firmware update, one month without the phone that sounds redicules to me. You really have to make online firmware updates avaliable for clients, otherwise I will switch back to Sony Ericsson because they know how to deal with customers.

[seraphim]

you guys ever see how many phones se have out at once? maybe 10.

nokia have ten times that in different languages across the world - to be honest i am not surprised it took them a long time to get this perfect. would you all have preffered a rush job that they fix as time goes by?

no, i doubt it.

i am also unsurprised by some people complaining about the service. nokia appears to have gone to great pains here giving us all the info available on the thing. i dont think this is late coming at all.

and to be honest mac_alex - if a service point is that far and you are speaking in dollars then you must be from the US or something - serves you right for getting a phone that is not for your market. had you got a US nokia phone, then you wouldnt have trouble. also, if you are using an e61 and complain there is no US equivalent, there is - its called the e62.

[dataghost]

>you guys ever see how many phones se have out
>at once? maybe 10.
>
nokia have ten times that in different languages
>across the world - to be honest i am not surprised
>it took them a long time to get this perfect.
>would you all have preffered a rush job that
>they fix as time goes by?

Maybe Nokia should see that quantity and quality are somewhat related to eachother... If they hadn't released that many phones at once, maybe they would have time to fix the real issues instead of releasing the same thing over and over again in yet another casing...
Indeed, I am not surprised to see that Nokia is having trouble keeping up with every phone's problem, since they have more different phone models than employees.


>i am also unsurprised by some people complaining
>about the service. nokia appears to have gone to
>great pains here giving us all the info available
>on the thing. i dont think this is late coming at all.

For 600 euros, I expect a device which works without any problem, with reasonable battery life and working software. I don't expect to have to wait for over three months to see something get fixed in the firmware, and still having to drive all the way to a service point to have it updated, which also costs me another day. Ok, a bug or two is acceptable, no software is bug-free. But looking at the changelogs, I see a huge load of bugs (which are fixed, but some firmware versions *cough 0617 cough* cause new ones) which just required some testing before the release. This would not be a great problem for me if I could just update my phone over the internet, but it is now I have to take my non-functional device (I needed a new phone because my old one was broken, but I bought the N80 as a PDA with phone features, not as a phone with PDA features) all the way to a service center which is only opened on weekdays between 10h-17h, and an hour driving away from me.

I do certainly hope this phone will last a couple of years (for 600 euros I can expect that), but I know for sure that my next phone is NOT going to be a Nokia phone, no, it will be my first non-Nokia phone after 4. I hope Nokia really reads this forum as said, and also thinks about what is being said here, because I know quite a few people who think the same.

[mac_alex]

---

26-Aug-2006
11:50 AM
seraphim wrote:
and to be honest mac_alex - if a service point is that far and you are speaking in dollars then you must be from the US or something - serves you right for getting a phone that is not for your market. had you got a US nokia phone, then you wouldnt have trouble. also, if you are using an e61 and complain there is no US equivalent, there is - its called the e62.

---

You know, you better to look profile before you guess location. I'm from Russian Far East, Vladivostok, Russia. I bought my phone E61 from Nokia's dealer in my town. The problem is that Nokia's certified service centers located in Moscow, that is over 9000km away from me. btw: Americans use miles in their country, so next time just look profile.
All what I want is to have a normal service like in U.S. Nokia should provide a service box for me to send via UPS to ship this phone to their service center in Moscow and fix this **bleep**py working firmware in 3 days and send me back. This way Apple Service work in U.S.

[seraphim]

ok, no worries. i assumed that you were american when you talked in dollars.

i am fairly sure nokia has a mail away address for support in russia, very recently i was in the Ukraine - part of the info pack I had there indicated a mail away support in Hungary. I know this isnt russia, but you could take a look at http://europe.nokia.com/A4144987 anyway just to find out.

or, just have a little patience. i tried to get a firmware update on my e61 recently (it doesnt work with the BH200) but was told there is no newer version yet.

[mac_alex]

I've heard that Nokia is going to release FOTA support for E61 in September, if they will do so, then they are really smart guys otherwise I'll give up and will buy SE.
I have a SIP problems over the NAT, I have miniSD problem that the phone can't work with them all, bluetooth connection issue and much more. :-( I like the phone and greatest Internet Browser from Apple, but other software makes me feel like they didn't really finished what they were trying to build.

[seraphim]

i also have problems with bluetooth headsets with my e61. i would naturally assume nokia will make all the eseries phones compatible with the updater as they are all s60 v3 phones.

the sip thing is mentioned in nokias faq on this phone

[taffytafftaf]

---

26-Aug-2006
03:52 PM
seraphim wrote:
ok, no worries. i assumed that you were american when you talked in dollars.

i am fairly sure nokia has a mail away address for support in russia, very recently i was in the Ukraine - part of the info pack I had there indicated a mail away support in Hungary. I know this isnt russia, but you could take a look at http://europe.nokia.com/A4144987 anyway just to find out.

or, just have a little patience. i tried to get a firmware update on my e61 recently (it doesnt work with the BH200) but was told there is no newer version yet.

---

My god, seraphim is helping somebody for a change. She normally just has a go at people.

[karim]

taffy - that comment is uncalled for. The ranking system here is based on how much people have helped, not on the amount of posts they make.

In the past seraphim has been very helpful to other members. Comments like this only cause arguments and arguments help no one. Do not do this again.

Regards
-
Karim

[bluecode77]

I think nokia and all others would learn from Apple's iPod software. Together with iTunes, everything works as charm. Copy photos on iPod, no prob... iTunes reduce their sizes, copies them to iPod, and all you need to do is just to select which folders you like. Copy music or updating your iPod library.. no prob.. iTunes updates the songs with ease.
A new firmware for iPod.. no problem.. iPod Updater makes it with ease.

I use E61, and I love my phone. But there are serious and annoying bugs on its software, and for months i'm expecting Nokia to respond that. I have sent emails to their support team, but all I had was a generic response! Nothingelse.

I am a Joe user, but I had no problem to upgrade my iPod's firmware, why I am suppose to go to Nokia shop to have my phone simply upgraded to a new firmware?
Why Nokia Suit still offers the same things, it offered 2 years ago, why can't they develop it to fit todays needs?
Why do I need to use MS Outlook or Outlook Express.. I use Thunderbird, Firefox and as much as opensource software I can use.. Cause I dont want to be slave of MS or any other corpration, I like to live mylife free and so let mysoftware to be free. Why can't nokia support OSX, linux after all those years? How come my E61 restarts itself when a new call rings, or how come it can restart when i tried to connect to a wifi? Or how can it stuck or stop respond? I'll ask the very same question many people in this forum.. How can they release a phone with an operating system with that much bug inside it, and worse.. how come they still havent released a firmware update to fix those problems

goodevenings all,
alper

[edwardquan]

---

28-Aug-2006
12:24 AM
bluecode77 wrote:
I think nokia and all others would learn from Apple's iPod software. Together with iTunes, everything works as charm. Copy photos on iPod, no prob... iTunes reduce their sizes, copies them to iPod, and all you need to do is just to select which folders you like. Copy music or updating your iPod library.. no prob.. iTunes updates the songs with ease.
A new firmware for iPod.. no problem.. iPod Updater makes it with ease.

I use E61, and I love my phone. But there are serious and annoying bugs on its software, and for months i'm expecting Nokia to respond that. I have sent emails to their support team, but all I had was a generic response! Nothingelse.

I am a Joe user, but I had no problem to upgrade my iPod's firmware, why I am suppose to go to Nokia shop to have my phone simply upgraded to a new firmware?
Why Nokia Suit still offers the same things, it offered 2 years ago, why can't they develop it to fit todays needs?
Why do I need to use MS Outlook or Outlook Express.. I use Thunderbird, Firefox and as much as opensource software I can use.. Cause I dont want to be slave of MS or any other corpration, I like to live mylife free and so let mysoftware to be free. Why can't nokia support OSX, linux after all those years? How come my E61 restarts itself when a new call rings, or how come it can restart when i tried to connect to a wifi? Or how can it stuck or stop respond? I'll ask the very same question many people in this forum.. How can they release a phone with an operating system with that much bug inside it, and worse.. how come they still havent released a firmware update to fix those problems

goodevenings all,
alper

---

The E61 is based on the Series 60, 3rd edition Operating System and therefore will be covered by the Software Updater.

All that's required is a bit of patience and you will be well rewarded

[mac_alex]

---

28-Aug-2006
12:24 AM
bluecode77 wrote:
I use E61, and I love my phone. But there are serious and annoying bugs on its software, and for months i'm expecting Nokia to respond that. I have sent emails to their support team, but all I had was a generic response! Nothingelse.

I am a Joe user, but I had no problem to upgrade my iPod's firmware, why I am suppose to go to Nokia shop to have my phone simply upgraded to a new firmware?
Why Nokia Suit still offers the same things, it offered 2 years ago, why can't they develop it to fit todays needs?
Why do I need to use MS Outlook or Outlook Express.. I use Thunderbird, Firefox and as much as opensource software I can use.. Cause I dont want to be slave of MS or any other corpration, I like to live mylife free and so let mysoftware to be free. Why can't nokia support OSX, linux after all those years? How come my E61 restarts itself when a new call rings, or how come it can restart when i tried to connect to a wifi? Or how can it stuck or stop respond? I'll ask the very same question many people in this forum.. How can they release a phone with an operating system with that much bug inside it, and worse.. how come they still havent released a firmware update to fix those problems

goodevenings all,
alper

---

I'm totally agree with you. I love my E61 too, I love the perfect screen, even better that iPod G5 has, but the software is really buggy and Nokia don't even admit this officially. I look at Nokia like on the monster, like it was IBM in 80's, huge, fat, don't given a good service to clients even to corporate devices like E61, and guess what will happen in the near future? Apple will take over the cell phone market. I'm pretty sure they won't have such a huge problems to integrate things, to sync Mac and smartphone. I don't think it's so complicated for Nokia to release at least firmware updates to users over internet. It's will be the first rigth step in their future otherwise they have no future.

[taffytafftaf]

---

27-Aug-2006
05:15 PM
karim wrote:
taffy - that comment is uncalled for. The ranking system here is based on how much people have helped, not on the amount of posts they make.

In the past seraphim has been very helpful to other members. Comments like this only cause arguments and arguments help no one. Do not do this again.

Regards
-
Karim

---

Sorry boss.

[andrey_gres]

Hello, Mac_Alex!
I suggest you to contact to BeeLine service center in your region. They will help you out with such update shortly with free of charge.
Andrey

[jcoder]

Hi,

With my Nokia E70, I phoned a Service Center, they said I need to bring it in (about 30km's), fetch it a day or so later (my guess 2 days or more). So 30km there, 30km back. Again 60km (total) to collect = 120km to have my firmware updated (not to mention that I gave my old phone away, so if my phone is in for update, I dont have any other phone and travelling time = about 3 hrs during worktime). So my question to you is, would you do the update yourself (5 mins) or travel 120km (3hrs) to accomplish same. Another scenario, would you take your phone to Service Center to update internet settings if you can do it via OTA in 30 seconds. Thanks for all your comments in discussion group, its really appreciated.

[anthonyalphonse]

I totally agree with you guys and i understand the frustration and pain when your phone hangs.
But i still feel this is a nice step forward by nokia that they have enabled the Online SOftware update, which basically helps out so many people.

And regarding the software being buggy, we should understand current phones have started running on a OS themselves and as windows also has bugs these OSes will also have some . It's present in all the software world, earlier phones were basic minimum and they didnt do much, now they come powerpacked with many features and graphics. It will take some time to stabilize the 3rd Edition phones and its OS.

Lets see how N95 's OS is !!

Thanks,
Anthony