[rmop]

When it happens, you'll agree: a non-booting Nokia SmartPhone is much dumber than a brick. Dumber yet is Nokia's failure to provide a non-destructive sequence to break a non-booting loop. Dumbest is using these phones after learning about this problem. I just got off the phone with Nokia Care Center. There really is NO such sequence! Unbelievable. There refrain was "you need to call the Nokia Care Center if that happens." With what? There are LOTS of places in the world in which GSM service is ALL there is. So, to call Nokia, I'd have to have the reset sequence. But wait. There IS none. Oh, sorry. Please bring the phone in. But there's no Nokia Service Center in (fill in your favorite 'Garden Spot'...). So, I was forced to scour this forum where I found the "Green-*-3" sequence w my E60 while travelling. Not a pretty solution. And "unauthorized" according to my Nokia Care Center. But there is no "authorized" one, either. My reading of this forum indicates this is not isolated to any particular model, and nothing indicates there to be a decent solution. What in the world is going on? These phones are COMPUTERS, for crying out loud. They are bound to go weird from time to time. We have GOT to have a solution at hand for such times. End of Rant.

[locus]

hold down the menu key, brings up equivalent of task manager.
press c app closes

[rmop]

In case I wasn't clear: I was referring to a NON-BOOTING situation (e.g., White Screen, unresponsive keypad) where NONE of the keys are functional. Pressing the Menu key or any other key or key combination (including the POWER button) at that point does nothing. No applications are open at that point. May it never happpen to you.

[clonmult]

in that case, re-install the firmware.

Its NOT a ctrl/alt/del situation, not even slightly.

Do you actually understand PCs and smartphones?

[rmop]

How, pray tell, would you go about reinstalling firmware to a completely non-responsive smartphone when very far away from your PC? Or how, indeed, even if sitting at your PC? It is usually a prerequsite that one be able to communicate with the device before downloading firmware...

[clonmult]

In that case, take it to a service center.

Guess its kinda like a PC that just will not boot, and you don't have a CD/DVD drive to boot it up off.

Hopefully the service center will have different (ie not Nokia Update Service) methods of updating the firmware.

[el_loco]

Well if my pc is not booting up what good is the Ctrl-Alt-Del

If your phone is not booting up at all your best bet is to take it to a Nokia service.

I once heard that you could hold down a few keys while turning up the phone to reset it, but I don't know if it works with all models.

[clonmult]

I think on the old SX1, you held down * and #, which did a reset on startup, but not sure if there is an equivalent on 9.1

[rmop]

That was quite the point of my original post. Taking a phone to a Service Center is simply not a viable option in many parts of the world. It's as if one shouldn't travel very far from a Service Center with these phones in case something goes wrong. What I'm suggesting is that there needs to be a documented, supported, NON-DESTRUCTIVE means of recovering from a non-booting situation in the field. These are MOBILE phones. My discussion with my local Service Center suggests that Nokia uses the DESTRUCTIVE Green-*-3 combo in such situations. I can do that and wipe my data without the inconvenience of taking it to a Service Center. To be fair, since my initial post, I've located what MIGHT be a couple of useful power-on keystroke combos but which, as untried by me, I shall not promulgate here. Nokia doesn't seem to be doing so, either, for what that's worth.

Message Edited by rmop on 27-Feb-2007
08:35 AM

[rmop]

If your PC powers-on, tries to boot but hangs somewhere before booting, don't you try Ctrl-Alt-Del and then the RESET button (if available) BEFORE hitting the power switch? I do. And perhaps RESET switch was a better choice than "Ctrl-Alt-Del" as a METAPHOR for something which will break the loop.

[patc]

CTRL-ALT-DEL is a "warm reboot", ie: it attempts to restart the operating system (O/S) without having to shut down the hardware. In effect, it does the same thing as turning the PC off and on just without powering down.

If your problem is with the phone restarting, then even if there was a CTRL-ALT-DEL option, it would not help as this would simply attempt to restart the phone, ie: exactly what you're trying to do already.

It sounds like there has been some corruption of the O/S and therefore CTRL-ALT-DEL wouldn't help: you need to get the O/S reinstalled. Unfortunately, there are no installation CDs for phones so you can't do this yourself, you have to take the phone to a service center.

Message Edited by patc on 27-Feb-2007
08:51 AM

[clonmult]

Thinking about this, its one area that the Nokia Update Service is lacking.

My old SE W550, on its original firmware had a few bugs that caused it to white screen at startup, but installing the SEUSII software, and then switching on the phone whilst holding down the C key, and the system went and re-loaded the firmware without any problems.

However, the Nokia Update Service requires the phone to be switched on, and for you to put it into the PC Suite mode, which isn't always possible.

Nokia? Are you reading this? Could you please make the update service a little more useful?

[patc]

Unfortunately, Nokia support don't read this - you need to report the issue via the support link at the top of this page.

[rmop]

EXACTLY. PC Suite is useful only when 1) at your PC and 2) your Phone is working. My Palm TX (and all prior Palms I've owned) have locked up while powered on. Palm provides a reset pin on these devices, and a number of button sequences which will force a variety of reset options (from "warm" reset which preserves data and settings to a "safe boot" equivalent to a full destructive reset in which all data are destroyed). This allows for one to escape from a non-booting loop w/o trashing the data in order to do so. It's nice to have a range of options. I hardly think it inappropriate to imagine that Nokia could provide an equivalent set of field recovery features.

[clonmult]

From the "sticky" thread on how to format a S60 phone :

If that doesnt work you can format most series 60 phones by holding down 3 * green whilst switching it on. Do this untill you see the word formatting or untill it prompts you to enter a city.


So, take out your MMC, hold down 3, * and the green call button whilst powering up.

[rmop]

That's where I BEGAN this thread. "Green-*-3" is a DESTRUCTIVE format. I used it recently as a means of last resort, as I had no other means of breaking the non-booting loop. We really need something less drastic than wiping the data and settings. It does WORK, in the sense that it will at least give you a working phone again, but it's a rather brutal approach. I'd like to see a reset pin with an associated set of progressive reset key sequences that will allow for recovery w/o destruction. Or at least will ATTEMPT that. Cheers...

[clonmult]

Consider it a lesson learnt - you can store pretty much everything on the memory card, messages, images, etc.

Also, doing regular backups, as you should do on a PC is a very sensible idea with any phone, especially a smartphone.

I've always done regular backups, it may take a few minutes each time, but its always time well spent.

[rmop]

What lesson am I to have learned? That you can't count on backups either? I have been backing things up regularly for 20 years. I had a recent backup on a 2Gb MMC (AND others via PC Suite, of the E60 AND the MMC). Unlocked MMC, by the way. After formatting the phone, I was able to do a complete restore in the field from the MMC. Nice, I thought. After the restore, the E60 advised me that it would restart. It did. What it DID NOT advise me was that it would also LOCK my MMC card. Yes, locked it. The FORMAT didn't lock it, the E60 did after the RESTORE from the MMC. Go figure. Or, better yet, give it a try yourself -G-. Nokia Service Center acknowledged that the E60 did lock the MMC, but they weren't sure why. Basically they said, "Our fault but your problem." I asked if they would at least reformat the MMC -- "No, because it's not a Nokia brand card." Great. So, as I've been saying, these fantastic phones are missing some crucial tools. Even a full and recent backup proved to have a serious "gottcha" -- use it and lose it! My restore did give me back the phone-memory-based data (mainly contacts) but locked me out of my MMC-based files entirely (MP3, TomTom Navigator, etc). A "backup" that is 1) REQUIRED because only a destructive format will restore the phone's functionality but is 2) good for ONE TIME USE only is, well, less than ideal. Had the E60 not locked the MMC after the restore, I'd probably be happy enough with the "Format->Restore from MMC" sequence. It was a "nearly there" experience, but one I'd prefer to not repeat.

Message Edited by rmop on 27-Feb-2007
11:03 AM

Message Edited by rmop on 27-Feb-2007
11:04 AM

[clonmult]

On either my old Siemens SX1, or my N73, I've done countless backups/restores, and NEVER experienced such behaviour on the phone.

Every time I've updated the firmware on my N73 (about 6 times so far, from Orange to vanilla fw, then updated vanilla, and the various ME versions that have been released), and not once has it locked me out of the memory card.

The only thing its ever done is fail to auto re-install some of the apps that I had on there, but thats about it.

I'll give you that its not a full backup though - icons invariably move back to default folders, and the Music Player forgets every piece of album art (and why doesn't it accept album art from WMAs?).

Sorry to say that it sounds like you've been incredibly unlucky with your phones.

[rmop]

There are numerous citations in these forums (sic) of MMC cards being locked by Nokia phones. Some of the situations make sense, some don't. Some clear user error (e.g., "I FORGOT my PW!") But, the bottom line seems to be that it HAPPENS, and not always with clear rhyme or reason. And, I've updated firmware w/o the MMC being locked. I don't think that's the issue. Others have found that the FORMAT locked their MMC, but mine functioned fine after a format. Unlucky? Well, worse things have happend to better people. But these phones are way too sophisticated to have such unsophisticated (IMO) error handling. Perhaps even Nokia will realize this sooner than later. I STILL love the phone. If it happens again, I'll be less forgiving.