[as21ro]

 Hello, i have a question, it is possible to install in near future Maemo OS in S60 devicesN95, 5800, N97, etc.)

[jacobsladder]

No.

[N97AndLikedIt]

its not possible i have asked nokia but thier reply was

Note : not exact words "the "model" was made for symbain OS and therefore cannot be converted to Meamo"

DO NOT FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS IN OTHER SITES WHICH SAY YOU CAN CONVERT IT, WILL RESULT IN SERIOUS DAMAGE TO DEVICE

[no1_slumko]

Currently It's not possible but If that is made possible by Nokia one day I think it would probably be with the 5800 and N97 not the N95 (touch screen)

I doubt that will ever be possible but we'll see 

[movilogo]

I think if Nokia wants, they can do it.

But most probably they will not do it - simply because that will see their sales revenue plunge.

There are here to do business - not to support over enthusiastic phone users.

I find whole "signed certificate" thing in Symbian bit disgusting. It is like "you pay me first - only then I shall allow you to run your app in my device"  robbery!

Rant mode over.

[no1_slumko]

Which OS will allow you to install unsigned apps without being hacked?

[cpitchford]

Maemo won't run on the current Symbian hand helds. They use the wrong type of processor. They won't run Maemo5 in particular as they also do not have a GPU..

Running unsigned binaries is possible on Maemo since all binaries are unsigned. It does not have limitations or restrictions like Symbian does.. but then again, the phones work in completely different ways.

Nokia's handsets canont run alternative operating systems as the hardware is particularly closed and the OS boot technology is protected by Nokia. 

The Maemo devices (770, N800, N810 and not the N900) are the only Nokia devices that can run alternative OS. The 770, N800 and N810 all received new operating systems from Nokia after launch.. much like upgrading a S60 handset from 2nd edition to 3rd edition.

This is the only time Nokia have done this, don't expect it on their current handsets, and don't assume it will happen on the N900.. 

Also

Maemo cannot run Symbian based software and vice versa. To do so requires development of the software aka "porting" and that is down to the supplier of the software to do the work. The work cannot be done by Nokia or anyone else

I don't understand the fuss about unsigned binaries? On my N97 I get the options "Signed only" and "All" The difference I suppose is "capabilities"only signed binaries can use things like DRM or see all the files on the device.. and that is a complex process.

No OS would allow you to install "unsigned apps" with these protected capabilities... to do that would require hacking.. and that's very obviously a very bad thing.

[movilogo]

Since Maemo is Linux, I'd be interested to know if it allows user to be root.

If not, it defeats the purpose of Linux, if yes, then hacking is no longer a crime in Symbian

[cpitchford]

Not out of the box.. however, there is a package you install (with the relevant warnings about screwing over your device) then you open a terminal (yeah.. it has xterm like terminal out of the box!) and sudo gainroot

taadaa... you are root.. now go and delete all your files and ruin your device!

 This has been the case with all Nokia tablet devices.. And it doesn't even affect your warranty! Maemo FTW, etc

[krizanand]

I dont understand the logic here, when FP2 came people wanted them on their device, when kinetic scrolling and contacts homescreen(multiple) came with 5530 people wanted them on their device now maemo5 is out and people wants them on their device, i am not offending anyone here. If all the above were made available in all the devices irrespective of their identity, Nokia can release only one touchscreen phone and one keypad phone naming it "Nokia touchscreen" and "Nokia Keypad"  and give everything what people request(demand). Please dont get me wrong here i want to share this with everyone and i am open for comments

[as21ro]

 folks, i ask this because few days ago nokia have made a press conference when they sayd that like the future N Series devices (2012+) will be based in Maemo OS.

 ...and my point of view is "when Nokia want something, then, they can do it"!

so, i believe that in the near(far ago) future, they gonna implements something!

with the necessary excuses for me again, I strongly believe that we can run on existing S60 maemo OS.

[cpitchford]

---

as21ro wrote:

 folks, i ask this because few days ago nokia have made a press conference when they sayd that like the future N Series devices (2012+) will be based in Maemo OS.

 ...and my point of view is "when Nokia want something, then, they can do it"!

so, i believe that in the near(far ago) future, they gonna implements something!

with the necessary excuses for me again, I strongly believe that we can run on existing S60 maemo OS.

---

"existing S60 maemo os"

reads as "existing Microsoft Windows Apple MacOS OS" 

I really believe it isn't going to happen. Maemo apps require a Linux kernel and the Maemo run time (which is based upon GTK and in future QT and a bunch of other open technologies)

S60 is a completely different system. It uses a Symbian kernel (instead of Linux), it uses Nokia's user interface (which makes it S60, not Symbian just like Maemo is more than Linux)

The environment is just not the same.

Nokia may introduce an emulation layer to allow s60 apps to run on Maemo.. but it is extremely unlikely and it wouldn't be soon.

S60 devices are smaller. They have less RAM and slower CPUs. They don't (mostly) have graphics acceleration. There is no benefit for Nokia to offer two operating systems for existing or even future handsets.. 

They've said future N series will be Maemo and future E series will be Symbian (though I expect there will be E series Maemo eventually) 

Put it this way, do you think they'd ever release a new version of S60 that will upgrade a S40 handset?

[as21ro]

1)sincerely, i have never thinking the S40 is an operating system.

2)"(which is based upon GTK and in future QT and a bunch of other open technologies)" so we can run QT in Symbian, then i believe we can run also maemo. no matter if "Nokia may introduce an emulation layer to allow s60 apps to run on Maemo.. but it is extremely unlikely and it wouldn't be soon." . I believe the most of us gonna agree this "emulation layer".

3) I strongly believe that we can run on existing S60, the maemo OS. sound better?

Finally, sorry for my bad english...

[cpitchford]

---

as21ro wrote:

1)sincerely, i have never thinking the S40 is an operating system.

---

Smirk.. I might agree with you there.. but technically, it is an OS.. it runs on very similar (albeit cheaper) hardware.. it supports applications.. it might be scraping the bottom of the OS barrel, but it makes just!

---

2)"(which is based upon GTK and in future QT and a bunch of other open technologies)" so we can run QT in Symbian, then i believe we can run also maemo. no matter if "Nokia may introduce an emulation layer to allow s60 apps to run on Maemo.. but it is extremely unlikely and it wouldn't be soon." . I believe the most of us gonna agree this "emulation layer".

---

QT runs on Mac OS too.. but an application written for Linux wouldn't run on a Mac or windows.. even with QT.. you need to "port the code" which involves recompiling..  QT isn't like Java.. its a standard toolkit, but that doesn't automatically mean you apps are cross platform..

What you're thinking of is emulating system calls.. Remember, very very few symbian apps are QT as it has only just been released!! The rest use native S60 calls.. those calls would need to be presented to Linux under Maemo..

The next problem is the CPU.. they aren't the same.. the OMAP3 chip in the N900 is very different to the old ARM chips in many S60 devices.. 

The next issue is the language. Symbian existed prior to c++ being a full standard. As such it misses some C++ functionality that is fixed under Linux (with GCC / G++) such as exceptions.. so a Symbian code cross compiler would be required.. 

---

3) I strongly believe that we can run on existing S60, the maemo OS. sound better?

Finally, sorry for my bad english...

---

S60 devices just aren't big enough.. the N97 has 128meg of ram, a 434mhz arm11 proc, no GPU, 640x360 screen, 128mb of flash (not the e and this is the TOP s60 handset.. not one spec item beats or matches the N900.. (accessories like the compass don't count)

Even if you could, it would be a horrible experience.. 2/3 of the CPU and half the RAM and 60% of the resolution. That's like running Windows 7 on a 4 year old laptop!! Ouch!

I don't think Nokia would invest in serious development to bring Maemo to a device that simply isn't powerful enough to provide a "nice" user experience.. Maemo on the N97 would be awful, where as S60 is (for the most part) pretty good..

A compatibility layer on Linux allow s60 apps to run on a Maemo device, is a different matter. That would require an LOAD of coding and would also eat at the Symbian market share.. Why buy a symbian device when a Maemo device would run both?

There is also the compatibility layer.. How would a maemo app communicate with a S60 application.. IPC (interprocess communication) is hard enough on Linux without trying to translate between different operating systems!

That being said, the Symbian kernel is open source now.. you can download it (this is not ALL of S60, but a large part) so you could potentially start a project! It would be along the lines of the "Wine" project for Unix.. This allows Windows binaries to run on Linux (note.. on Linux running on x86 systems, not on ARM systems.. Wine wouldn't work for Maemo)

What I might envision happening in the not too distanct future, is an Android layer for Maemo.. allowing you to run an Android app.. I don't imagine it would be particularly good.. but atleast there is no requirement to port system calls and low level stuff..

I just think Symbian and Linux are too different to be interchangable..

If QT was used to develope more applications, porting the software would be easier.. but still require work

[as21ro]

You said "I don't think Nokia would invest in serious development to bring Maemo to a device that simply isn't powerful enough to provide a "nice" user experience.."

 But with a "light" version? 

Anyway i think u say it enough, and even a rookye can understand what did u say...

 Thanks for sharing your experience.

I let threat open for few days, maybe someone else have something(useful) to say on this "story"...

 Thanks

[cpitchford]

I know SE is generally frowned upon.. but they are in the Symbian market place..

http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/19/sony-ericsson-kurara-has-speedy-cortex-a8-powervr-purring-insid/

That device, although the specs aren't all there, is much closer to the spec of the N900! If there were a S60 handset that would be a maemo candidate, strangely this SE phone might be it!!