[garnett]

Once the phones are sold they're sold. I reckon for everyone pointing out an error on here, there are hundreds of people who are suffering in silence, and, better for Nokia, thousands not trying out the features that the phone should have but which don't work.

Has anyone on here had a "Oh we'll fix that" response from Nokia followed by a quick fix?

Everything about the company seems so clumsy. To contact them you have to follow an obscure series of navigation buttons. When you finally get to the form, you get an error message when submitting it.

The supplied software is so basic and at the same time so convoluted it's as though nobody in development at the company speaks to anyone else.

The phone itself just about functions as a phone (although a dialler without alphanumerics? Really?).

OTA firmware updates doesn't work: "Connection Failed".

Music player doesn't work: "Refreshing Library" goes on indefinitely.

Updates require a backup and restore or face losing all data.

Nothing works off the bat but instead requires vast user configuration.

In terms of this phone vs the iPhone I think it's very telling where the extra money is spent - the byline "it just works".

Nothing "just works" on the 5800, it either requires massive user configuration, or doesn't work at all.

[musiclvr]

There is always risk when being an adapter to new technology. However, due diligence is the responsibility of the consumer. I read the threads prior to making my purchase and made a decision. Buying and complaining is counterproductive.

Being in Product Management professionally, I can assure you that the developers of the 5800 are not sitting on their thumbs. However, separating a bug from user error or prioritizing bugs to address cannot be a snap decision. There is an impact assessment that must be made for each fix to make sure it will not break anything else.

Is the 5800 perfect? No, of course not. Neither was the iPhone or G1. This is a first of a kind phone for Nokia and I think it deserves credit. Should issues be addressed? Absolutely. Will they? Absolutely.

However, the user must bear responsibility for making the purchase based on available information.

You have a right as a consumer to complain. However, make constructive complaints, not whining ones. JM2C

[becksyboy]

I love my 5800, and as above:

Caveat emptor  "Let the buyer beware"

[garnett]

Hmmmm. "Buyer beware" and "due diligence is the responsibility of the consumer" are fair comments and oft  bandied terms, as is "the customer is always right" and plenty of other contradictory and equally glib phrases.

In terms of research, if Nokia say the phone does X, and the phone does not do X where does research and due diligence get us?

If the OP comes across as whining complaint then it is misconstrued. It's a caveat for would-be emptors.

With Nokia, it appears, there is no such thing as constructive criticism. To be constructive someone at Nokia would need to be listening. 

[musiclvr]

I don't know how long you have owned your phone. I have had mine a week and have found three issues which I reported here and directly. Specifics help. Again, my background makes me more sympathetic to the manufacturer than to the customer. Pardon my bias. However, if you have not had your phone long, maybe just return it? If you are determined that Nokia is not a customer-centric company, the obvious question would be "Why did you buy a Nokia."

But yes, I do believe that consumers are responsible for researching their purchases, reading reviews, reading discussion groups (with the understanding that not all posts are truthful), even trying out the product in advance where possible. I spent about a month in my decision making process. I am no cell phone afficionado, so a lot of the features of the 5800 were foreign to me. I had a lot to learn.

However, aside from the issues I have, all minor, I am very impressed with the UI, image quality, look and feel. I have a little difficult time with the browser and connectivity settings. I have more to learn there.

I am sorry your experience was so poor.  However, I encourage you to either return your unit or become a part of the solution.I reiterate that because this is a high profile product, people ARE listening.

[garnett]

Musiclvr, I appreciate your considered replies, and I agree that, especially it seems with Nokia, a consumer must not take a manufacturer's claims at face value but must spend a long time looking into each function they want that Nokia claims their phone can accomplish.

I would love to become part of the solution. Can you or anyone else tell me where my criticisms will be heard by Nokia?

[musiclvr]

Well, I will share what support emailed me.The following was in response to a quite detailed report I sent to customer care (level 1, obviously). However, I mentioned that I wanted to file a bug report and wanted to make sure it gets to the right person.

the discussion forum is used by our consumers to write comments and reviews about our products. However, if you could provide me additional details regarding your inquiry about the bug report, I will be more than happy to direct you the appropriate department within Nokia.

My approach to problem solving is always collaborative. Engage others and you get their brain power added to yours. With the thousands of posts that accumulate here, there is no way that the serious issues can be separated from user issues. So, I recommend constructing an email to customer care with as much detail and as little emotion as possible.

I realize this is an expensive purchase and you have every right to expect a good product that meets your expectations. I believe that you will be successful in getting your issue read by the right group and I would definitely offer your assistance in testing any solution when you write. A device as multifaceted as the 5800 requires a lot of QA and OQ testing, but until it gets into the real world, it is not possible to test everything and stuff does get missed.

This is where you and I come in. However, the forums are not the place to get anything resolved beyond usage questions as the note above implied.

Good luck. I hope you become a satisfied user.

[roberth]

@ the original poster........

before you go ranting about the device "not working"

you should pay some attention to certain things......

OTA updates were NOT specified by nokia as "out of the box"

thus because a particular nokia may have the OTA feature its

not a standard for every device........

2. have you ever tried calling other phone manufacturers and getting

a "quick and satifying response" ? its all the same......at least there

is this forum

3. "music player doesn't work" - never had an issue.......refreshing the

library works for me.....how are you placing your music on the device?

PC suite? Data mode? are you disconnecting correctly before  refreshing

the library?

4. "All data is lost" - before updating there is a notice from the Nokia Updater

CLEARLY STATING THIS POINT!!!!

In other words, if its to cumbersome for you to connect your device and do a backup,

dont blame nokia........they did state clearly that data will be lost........

 this also goes back to #1 point made.......not all devices have the same features......

some devices do....some dont........preserve user data.....

and with this i say how many devices from other

manufacturers do a UDP?

at least nokia makes an effort to update the "software" of the devices

regualrly unlike other manufacturers who take more than ages to do it........

if ever............

Message Edited by roberth on 23-Apr-2009 10:31 PM

[garnett]

Thanks for the info Musiclvr.

Roberth - "ranting"? I'm not the one with a capslock problem. While I'm glad your relationship with Nokia has been so personally rewarding, I think you've not fully comprehended some of my points.

I am aware the Nokia Update Process professes its failings re requiring a full backup prior to action. This doesn't make it any less of a failing.

Regarding placing music on the device, I have used PC Suite anddirect transfer via "Mass Storage" mode, and believe I have disconnected correctly. Is there a clunky Nokia-esque specific way disconnection must be effected? Which methods of music transfer can the 5800 not handle?

[musiclvr]

---

garnett wrote:

snip....

Regarding placing music on the device, I have used PC Suite anddirect transfer via "Mass Storage" mode, and believe I have disconnected correctly. Is there a clunky Nokia-esque specific way disconnection must be effected? Which methods of music transfer can the 5800 not handle?

---

This is a fair criticism. When I first loaded my music using mass storage method (via Linux), the memory card was corrupted even after flushing the cache and safely disconnecting the device via HAL (Hardware abstraction layer). In Windows, there is no need to use mass storage since XP seems to recognize both the S60 unit (which is how the phone is identified) and it's memory card and each are accessible. In Mass storage mode, it appears only the memory card is accessible. Unfortunately, in Linux, PC Suite mode is not recognized atm.

It is possible that an internal caching mechanism could be at issue in mass storage mode. So, my recommendation for the moment is use PC Suite mode and Nokia tools. More investigation is required.

[garnett]

Ironically Musiclvr, I did try to send Nokia an email about something. I tried three times and each time the website produced an error when I sub,itted my email.

Personally, and with the hope I am proved wrong, I always think a company whose contact system is kaput does not really care too much about its customers.

[musiclvr]

try nokiausa.customercare@nokia.com (if you're in the US) directly, that's where the replies come from.