[willem1]

"well your argument doesnt matter, coz you dont have to pay for any licenses from Nokia to use Ovi Maps 3.03. All you need is a compatible phone"

I am a registered Nokia user with a N82, and I got an email from Nokia stating:

 "Ovi Maps Free navigation on your Nokia."

They did not say that I got free navigation when I buy another phone, so I did expect to get free navigation on my N82. That's why I am disappointed in Nokia!

[Gfnn]

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chanchan05 wrote:
GFnn - well your argument doesnt matter, coz you dont have to pay for any licenses from Nokia to use Ovi Maps 3.03. All you need is a compatible phone.

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It does matter.

I don't have to pay any license, but I have to buy a new phone. As in both cases I have to spend money, it doesn't make any difference to me.

You haven't answered my question: would you find it fair if TomTom did what I wrote in my previous post? Nokia is doing something not that different.

[chanchan05]

What your post and what Nokia did is very different.

1. In your hypothetical ad, navigation is not free because you pay for a license.

2. Nokia is giving away free navigation for compatible phones. No need of buying. Its just your luck you have an incompatible phone. You are not paying for a license.

What Nokia is doing is similar for certain software PCs. Take this. what if Eidos released this ad:

Just Cause 2 is released! The much awaited sequel for Just Cause is here!

-----------------------------------

-----------------------------------

System Requirements: Win7/Vista

So what happens to XP users? They need to buy either Win7 or Vista to get the game. Same to you. You need to buy a compatible device for it.

On another note, it has been said that the price for the intended free navigation has been incorporated into the prices of the phones compatible with it. Whenever you buy a 5800 for example, a part of its cost goes to the lifetime license..

[Gfnn]

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  chanchan05 wrote:

On another note, it has been said that the price for the intended free navigation has been incorporated into the prices of the phones compatible with it. Whenever you buy a 5800 for example, a part of its cost goes to the lifetime license..

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  So "Free" navigation is actually NOT free!

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chanchan05 wrote:

What Nokia is doing is similar for certain software PCs. Take this. what if Eidos released this ad:

Just Cause 2 is released! The much awaited sequel for Just Cause is here!

-----------------------------------

-----------------------------------

System Requirements: Win7/Vista

So what happens to XP users? They need to buy either Win7 or Vista to get the game. Same to you. You need to buy a compatible device for it.

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This is completely different, as they clearly state that the game is for Win7/Vista.

If they stated "System Requirements: YOUR pc", I would expect the game to run even on Win98.

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chanchan05 wrote:

What your post and what Nokia did is very different.

1. In your hypothetical ad, navigation is not free because you pay for a license.

2. Nokia is giving away free navigation for compatible phones. No need of buying. Its just your luck you have an incompatible phone. You are not paying for a license.

---

I own a TomTom device. I did not pay any license for it. I just paid for the device. So TomTom is offering free navigation too. So why doen's TomTom advertise free navigation? Because to costumers paying for a license is exactly the same as paying for a new device, if the software is bound to it.

[chanchan05]

  So "Free" navigation is actually NOT free!

In a way, yes, but it would almost be negligible since it was already incorporated into the phone cost. In a sense it is "free"

This is completely different, as they clearly state that the game is for Win7/Vista.

If they stated "System Requirements: YOUR pc", I would expect the game to run even on Win98.

No its the same. Those system requirements are on the bottom of the page, after extrapolating all the new stuff. Same thing as the Nokia ad...after they blurt out about free navigation and all that, there is a list of compatible phones.

If the gamers for Just Cause 2 behaved like Nokia customers who did not bother to read beyond the headline, Eidos boards will be like this, people ranting why the game is not compatible to their XP machines. The Eidos customers are just on the whole smarter IMO.

I own a TomTom device. I did not pay any license for it. I just paid for the device. So TomTom is offering free navigation too. So why doen's TomTom advertise free navigation? Because to costumers paying for a license is exactly the same as paying for a new device, if the software is bound to it.

The license is paid with the device price. Just like the above statement wherein the prices for the phones with compatibility has it taken into account. Buying the device entails agreeing to the user terms agreement of the TomTom device, and since you agree to it as signified by buying the device, you are licensed to use it.

The older devices (N82, N95), did not have this consideration where the prices of the phone included the navigation license, which is why the navigation license has not been completely waived, but radically discounted.

Nokia still has to pay the NavTeq stockholders you know.

[Gfnn]

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chanchan05 wrote:

The license is paid with the device price.

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 That confirms my previous statement: "Free" navigation is actually not free.

[timppu]

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Gfnn wrote:

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chanchan05 wrote:

The license is paid with the device price.

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 That confirms my previous statement: "Free" navigation is actually not free.

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A barbershop nearby offers a "free" haircut every six times you visit them. Of course, using your argumentation, the sixth haircut is not really free, so the barbershop should be sent to court for lying to its customers.

For some reason, the customers of the barbershop don't seem to be so agitated by it as you are. Heck, one haircut even costs more than one year of Ovi Maps 3.01 navigation (9.99€)!

[Gfnn]

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timppu wrote:

Of course, using your argumentation, the sixth haircut is not really free, so the barbershop should be sent to court for lying to its customers.

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Using your argumentation, TomTom should advertise free navigation on its devices.

But they don't do it...

[chanchan05]

@Gfnn - they have a right to choose what to advertise and not.

Besides, nothing is free in this world. Or cant you understand that? There's always a catch. That's like the first thing you learn in economics class. "no free lunch". If someone says its free, its really not, there's something they're not telling you. 

Arguing semantics is getting us nowhere.

To put it in a definition you'd understand

New phones have the 10 euro license integrated into device price.

Older phones whose price does not have the license included pays this separate.

Simple.

[Gfnn]

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  chanchan05 wrote:

Besides, nothing is free in this world. Or cant you understand that? There's always a catch. That's like the first thing you learn in economics class. "no free lunch". If someone says its free, its really not, there's something they're not telling you.

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True. It just seems to me that Nokia wants to hide the catches.

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chanchan05 wrote:

Arguing semantics is getting us nowhere.

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 Now I completely agree with you. 

[timppu]

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Gfnn wrote: 

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timppu wrote: 

Of course, using your argumentation, the sixth haircut is not really free, so the barbershop should be sent to court for lying to its customers. 

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Using your argumentation, TomTom should advertise free navigation on its devices.

But they don't do it...

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No they shouldn't, because their income depends on people buying map updates from them. I'm sure you understand the difference, but you just want to argue because you can't get over it Nokia isn't supporting your old phone model.

[Gfnn]

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timppu wrote:

No they shouldn't, because their income depends on people buying map updates from them.

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I TOTALLY disagree.

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  timppu wrote:

I'm sure you understand the difference 

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1)I buy a Nokia N97. I want to use the navigation software. I don't have to pay any more fees. So navigation is free.

2) I buy a TomTom device. I want to use the navigation software. I don't have to pay any more fees. So navigation is free.

@timppu: Please tell me the difference.

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timppu wrote:

you just want to argue because you can't get over it Nokia isn't supporting your old phone model.

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You are right: I am really upset about Nokia not supporting my extremely old N96 (S60 3rd Ed FP2), which was released ages ago (18 months) at a very affordable price.

I can't get over it, even if I successfully installed a DRM free version of Ovi Maps 3.01.

BTW, I also own a 5800XM...

[chanchan05]

@Gfnn - for dedicated GPS devices, to get updated maps you have to go to their stores to have the update your maps for a fee, so yes, their income depends on buying the map updates from them.

For Nokia you get map updates free.