[Mick_H1]

Just out of curiosity I decided to give my N900 a major task today.

I actually applied for a job online.

First off I found a suitable job, filled in the online application form and then attached a copy of my CV (which I transferred across last night). I then minimised the browser, fired up AbiWord and typed the covering letter, which was then attached to the application and submitted.

3 minutes later a got an email confirming that my application had been received.

[richwhite]

Brilliant!

Where did you get AbiWord? I really want/need a 'word' app that i can use to write documents not just read them

[ceroberts75]

great isnt it.

i hardly use a laptop now.

of coarse, it has been that way since my e90!

[Mick_H1]

I got AbiWord from the "Extras Dev" repository.

It's pretty comprehensive with quite a long list of supported formats, incl PDF, MS Word and I think Open Office .odt is in there as well.

[matthew_maude]

i've activated the extras dev catalog but how safe is it seen as i'm not a developer

[cpitchford]

Enabling the catalogue won't upset your phone.. but installing some dodgy software might!

Take regular backups and remember uninstalling some dodgy software doesn't mean its gone away cleanly.. it can leave crud behind.. If you hit problems and go looking for answers it is good to know what you've installed and what you've removed recently!

Worst thing affected seems to be the virtual keyboard.. lots of people report that it disappears or stops working.. If you notice this, report back asap with details!

Worst comes to the worst, you'll have to reflash to get your phone back..

[richwhite]

Tempted to install extras just for specific apps. Are there any known to be troublesome or known to be fine? I want this word app badly, seeing as i'm a writer it'd be very handy, and i'd quite like witter

[cpitchford]

The less an application fiddles with the rest of the system, generally, the safer it is.. this seems to be why things that mess with keyboard and input methods screw the whole device.. they're low level

abiword is pretty freaking huge! But it seems to be standalone so it should be ok..

Another way to tell is checking the number of dependencies, the other packages required when installing the thing you want.. (the third tab in the more info pane)

If a package relies on a billion other packages, I might wait a while, since those packages might be "Testing" or "Dev" too

[richwhite]

By more info pane, do you mean 'details>installing'? 

[cpitchford]

that's the beasty.. sorry, didn't have my handset with me.. though I was logged into it via wifi

[richwhite]

so what am i looking out for? it says 'requires ... of device memory' but nothing of other programs

[cpitchford]

for abiword?

I get libenchant
libwmf
libfribi
libwv
deforma
gsfonts

those look a bit scary.. The question is, will they all go into /opt or will they sit in /usr/lib?

[richwhite]

i won't even pretend to know what you're getting at

[cpitchford]

my bad..

under the "Installing" tab it should tell you a list of requirement packages that will be installed too.. these are packages required by Abiword (assuming we're talking about abiword)

Now, my worry is that these packages (particularly fonts and packages that start "lib" since these are library files (think DLLs for windows) have not been optified.. this means they will install on the very limited rootfs rather than in /opt which is on the emmc..

the problem I've seen with testing packages is the developers sometimes haven't managed (or bothered) to "optify" their package.. ensuring that it installs onto the EMMC and won't fill the rootfs..


This is my biggest worry when using test/dev packages

[richwhite]

ah ok, thanks. in that case i'll just stick to my current plan of only having extras enabled and waiting for the testing apps to trickle through

[cpitchford]

See, a quick look at libwmf.. a package required by abiword:

-rw-r--r-- root/root     10260 2005-07-27 21:55 ./usr/share/doc/libwmf0.2-7/changelog.gz
-rw-r--r-- root/root      3688 2001-10-28 12:40 ./usr/share/doc/libwmf0.2-7/README.gz
-rw-r--r-- root/root      1412 2001-08-21 15:40 ./usr/share/doc/libwmf0.2-7/CREDITS
-rw-r--r-- root/root      2452 2001-05-09 10:56 ./usr/share/doc/libwmf0.2-7/TODO
-rw-r--r-- root/root      3605 2008-01-23 17:21 ./usr/share/doc/libwmf0.2-7/copyright
-rw-r--r-- root/root      3047 2008-02-18 12:21 ./usr/share/doc/libwmf0.2-7/changelog.Debian.gz
-rw-r--r-- root/root      2935 2009-05-19 22:20 ./usr/share/defoma/scripts/libwmf0.2-7.defoma
-rw-r--r-- root/root    301940 2009-05-19 22:20 ./usr/lib/libwmf-0.2.so.7.1.0
-rw-r--r-- root/root     93268 2009-05-19 22:20 ./usr/lib/libwmflite-0.2.so.7.0.1
-rw-r--r-- root/root      5768 2009-05-19 22:20 ./usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/loaders/io-wmf.so

That's the contents of the libwmf package.. doesn't look like it has been "optied" (because none of the paths start /opt ) looks like it will eat 420k of rootfs space.. that's not very nice!

this is why I dislike the testing repositories.. for devices like the N900, using rootfs space is NOT cool

[matthew_maude]

---

cpitchford wrote:
Enabling the catalogue won't upset your phone.. but installing some dodgy software might!

Take regular backups and remember uninstalling some dodgy software doesn't mean its gone away cleanly.. it can leave crud behind.. If you hit problems and go looking for answers it is good to know what you've installed and what you've removed recently!

Worst thing affected seems to be the virtual keyboard.. lots of people report that it disappears or stops working.. If you notice this, report back asap with details!

Worst comes to the worst, you'll have to reflash to get your phone back..

---

cheers Chris

how would i go about running the maemo version of DLL if i were to run into any problems, thats persuming that like windows i can remove anything that the uninstall leaves out or is it more complex than that? i'm not afraid of a bit of diy but my only real programing experience is cheating on command and conquer

and also i'm fairly compitent with a pc, more to the point i know how to flash the bios/format the hard drive (basically i can build a pc from scratch but its pretty much all self taught) but how different is it if i need to flash the phone?

[cpitchford]

i think you're best weapon is a lack of fear to get stuck in!!

poor packages don't leave files that form part of the package. for example, a dll file if added by a package will definitely be removed when the package is uninstalled.. dpkg deals with this..

the problem is when other files or settings are changed during install or use of the package. this might be a config file that the package altered when installed. it might not change things back on uninstall... or things like registry keys.. they might get left behind (gconf registry is a bit like the windows registry)

those bits are harder to spot and can be hard to fix..

a good package should leave the system in the same state after removal..

remember though there are two big levels of uninstalled on Maemo...

removed packages are removed but leave any non-package files behind.. like config files or datafiles... magine uninstalling a datapase, this would leave the db files behind although the program is removed..

then there is purged.. this will scrub the data files too and should leave the system clean... the app manager doesn't ncessarily do the second step.. but you might need to do this manually if dealing with a bad package..

last thing, it is generally incredibly bad to move software (progs and libs and data) after install.. leavinig libs where they are is healthy even in inconvienient

[Mick_H1]

In all intents and purposes, Chris is correct. The apps from "Extras devel" can cause a few problems, however I've come across very few that have caused a few hiccups. These have ranged from not being able to quit the app because I've not found a way to do it (if it is there) to they just won't run at all (they quit straight back to desktop).. But I've been selective after reading the install info and reading the feedback on maemo.org. After using AbiWord for a few days now I can say it's OK, a little quirky in one or two areas, i.e, If you want to align your address with the top right corner, you'd hi-light it and grab the indent marker then drag it across, but because of the screen size we're dealing with it's difficult.

The software that I don't install from "Extras devel" are the little utilities that allow you to change/edit system files to, i.e make the status light flash different colours/speeds and patterns, or change fonts and stuff like that.

Because both "Extras" and "Extras devel" are mixed up after enabling the devel packages, it's just a simple case of going to "Application Cataologues" -> "Maemo Extras - devel", select it then put a tick in "Disabled". Then the devel packages won't show up. That way there's no nasty accidents.

But as Chris says "Your best weapon is fear". I love to get my hands dirty. I've lost count how many times I had to reinstall Windows when I was tinkering with my Win98 machine, and I really need to reinstall XP on this one, but being an OEM XP, I'm not sure if it would let me.

I'd say read up on it as much as you can, and if in doubt, go to maemo.org and give the devs a shout. And if, in the end, you decide not to install, you're not a wimp................ You've just got more common sense than the rest of us .

[cpitchford]

well said!

Just out of interest, could you run "df -h" in an x terminal and post the results back here.. I  was thinking this morning I might've been too harsh on abiword but now I've got 2G coverage there's not much chance of me downloading 21meg