[mortenandersen]

I see your point. But for me as an end user, the name of the device or platform is of subordinate importance: What really matters are what software possibilities are present and that the keyboard is good (as 9210i). Softwarewise, Nokia should really take advantage of USING the great heritage from the EPOC and Psion times, with making a new device that really functions as a planning tool and an office tool, like the old Communicators did. Hardwarewise, it is not the point to create a "fluffy" or "ultra-modern" device, but first of all to make sure that the device is capable in a good everyday manner to use as a phone, a PDA (writing and reading), and a "simple" construction used up to 9219i presented us a good keyboard and a way to open the phone, that was very straightforward and functional.

The solution is not some new fancy device.

Nokia should see that the solution is really within reach now, and of course it should also include the most essential new technological developments over the last years.

[beaumec]

Thank goodness someone agrees with me!

It matters not a jot what this wretched device is called. The point is what the old Communicators did and how they did it in terms of applications and ease of use, not to mention multi-tasking.

I got an E90 this morning on 14 days appro. Yes it's a nice piece of hardware but that is absolutely the root of the issue. It is just hardware!!

Within 60 mins I have removed my SIM and put it back in my 9500 having seen immediately that there are major issues in use.
Firstly, this D-BUtton driven interface is impossibly inefficient compared with the Menu and Escape keys, and 4 Cursor buttons. With 9500 I can zip between applications and multiple spreadsheets, multiple documents, multiple web pages, and even multi-country phone books, etc. all open at the same time and accessible very quickly.

Immediately I see that is just not possible in the same way with E90. I shall probably keep it since it makes a passable Radio on my desk, and a passable camera. But as a replacement business tool and replacement to my 9500 - I don't think so.

I will be happy to eat humble pie in a week or so after I have found the time to waste to explore a completely alien interface and see if I am wrong. But so far, it is an expensive paperweight!!

By the way Sapporo, if Nokia really do want to hear the cogent views of serious users of their products, then perhaps you or they might like to publish an email address or two. I had several email addresses for execs in Nokia and wrote to them some weeks back. Predictably, not a single response from anyone. I really don't think they want to know, still less engage in timewasting conversations with real customers.

If Peter Ogden should happen to read this, please, since you now own Psion, set about designing a new Psion with a phone to meet this yawning gap in the market. From what I understand a Revo with phone was actually built years ago.

[mortenandersen]

I am very very glad that someone agrees with me on these for me important issues. However, it would really be a shame if the right people in Nokia either don´t care or don´t listen to such valuable and constructive critizism.

To be spesific: First of all the E90 lacks several essential PIM features, for instance: A Calendar with week planner, different color options for different kinds of entries. This could be enhanced to include the next coming weeks or month, such as the software of for instance the Psion NetBook offers.

The large screen size should also enable the user to use a tab like before. And the user should be able to use such a large screen in much more intelligent ways than the brute and simple way that the E90 provides for. I also miss the Menu and Esc and arrow keys.

The "directional pad" is also misplaced, and also in other ways not good to use.

The keyboard has far too little travel, and the keys are placed far too close to one another. (Take for instance a look at what Sony now has done consistently with their laptops: More separate keys all over, just to prevent misprints.) In my opinion, the last good keyboard of the Communicators, was the 9210i keyboard, which I think is very good.

The Contact search function must be able to search in a way as good as 9500 was able to do.

Timed profiles must again be included.

Scheduled (timed) sendings (time ahead) of messages must be taken back. And technically, one should think that GSM fax still could be included, in addition to later technology.

With regard to hardware, I would prefer a more simpel way of opening and closing the unit, like all Communicators had up to 9500. The opening mechanism in E90 is in my opinion working far too "abrupt".


I would strongly advise the right Nokia people to use the valuable features of the rich heritage from EPOC and Psion, especially with regard to the very useful features that can (again) make the Communicator both as a good PDA/phone and also a good planning and office tool.

Message Edited by mortenandersen on 18-Jul-2008 03:58 PM

[sapporobaby]

YOu and another gentleman have combined less than 10 posts. I would suggest you go back and read this entire thread, it is quite long I know, but it will answer many of your issues regarding things such as fax (never going to happen again, as 3G does not support faxing and there is no fax modem in the E90), etc.... For the most part these are now dead issues in that enough info about the E90 has been posted to allow people to make informed purchases. If after all of this, you went ahead and purchased an E90 with the supposedly known short comings, then there is very little else to do other than get used to the way the future Communicators with S60 will be or look for another device, or naturally continue to use the Nokia Contact Support links.

P.S. The new search feature blows away anything previously put forth. The new one searches ALL metadata on the entire device, not just names and numbers and it does it faster.

Message Edited by sapporobaby on 18-Jul-2008 06:01 PM

[mortenandersen]

I know that 3G is not supporting fax. But my whole point is that a new (next) device in the Communicator spirit (not E90) should make use also of the existing GSM and include again a fax modem to enable the fax function, if this is technically possible, which indeed I think it is.

[sapporobaby]

Ah, okay. Yes this is possible but I do not think it will happen. This is just my guess though. You never know. For the most part faxes are being replaced with Digital Senders. Write to Nokia and make your wishes known. They may respond.

[mortenandersen]

Thanks for the good suggestion: making the needs and suggestions known to the right people in Nokia.

I would like to do this, but I have not found the e-mail address that could make such a contact possible.

If you know of such an address, please present it to me!

[beaumec]

Sapporo
Why does the number of posts have any relevance at all? What matters is the content.

If you don't think any of our comments are either important or of interest then perhaps this is the same with Nokia, and may explain why E90 was ever designed and launched in the first place.

I owe no loyalty to Nokia and if they don't care about their serious business users, then presumably they won't be upset when we all walk.

It is increasingly clear that other manufacturers are trying to produce products close to what we had before. In due course maybe they will appear, responding to user demand unlike Nokia.

As for fax I am not sure your comments can be taken at face value. Had fax been built in it could easily have been set to default to GPRS and not 3G. Indeed as far as I can see E90 can already be set to not use 3G as required, and/or 3G cannot be in use when making a call. I live in an area with very patchy 3G coverage and the phone defaults to 2G services. So what is different about a fax call over 2G? It would suggest to me that it is indeed a marketing decision, not a technical issue solely as many, including Steve Litchfield, have implied in the reviews I have read.

By the way I had read the entire thread in its entirety before I wrote my comment! And I have used the phone and analysed the capabilities thoroughly before taking delivery of it as well. As I made quite clear I simply decided that since I was effectively being given a free phone I might as well take it and use it as a toy, which is what it seems to be.

I would love to know why you have the handle "Mobile Visionary". I see nothing visionary about your view of these respective products and as a lifetime IT Exec for much bigger companies than Nokia I see them making major mistakes, and what is worse displaying some arrogance towards dissenting opinion.

You may consider these dead issues, but if Nokia does not listen to user opinion if not for new releases of this product, then at least for future product, then maybe the product range will die! There is huge competition out there, and they have already lost a huge chunk of corporate users to Blackberry. Watch out Nokia!!

[beaumec]

I think bearing in mind the way this thread has evolved, you are right. I bet Nokia do NOT like it!

[sapporobaby]

---

18-Jul-2008 06:50 PM
beaumec wrote:
Sapporo
Why does the number of posts have any relevance at all? What matters is the content.

If you don't think any of our comments are either important or of interest then perhaps this is the same with Nokia, and may explain why E90 was ever designed and launched in the first place.

I owe no loyalty to Nokia and if they don't care about their serious business users, then presumably they won't be upset when we all walk.

It is increasingly clear that other manufacturers are trying to produce products close to what we had before. In due course maybe they will appear, responding to user demand unlike Nokia.

As for fax I am not sure your comments can be taken at face value. Had fax been built in it could easily have been set to default to GPRS and not 3G. Indeed as far as I can see E90 can already be set to not use 3G as required, and/or 3G cannot be in use when making a call. I live in an area with very patchy 3G coverage and the phone defaults to 2G services. So what is different about a fax call over 2G? It would suggest to me that it is indeed a marketing decision, not a technical issue solely as many, including Steve Litchfield, have implied in the reviews I have read.

By the way I had read the entire thread in its entirety before I wrote my comment! And I have used the phone and analysed the capabilities thoroughly before taking delivery of it as well. As I made quite clear I simply decided that since I was effectively being given a free phone I might as well take it and use it as a toy, which is what it seems to be.

I would love to know why you have the handle "Mobile Visionary". I see nothing visionary about your view of these respective products and as a lifetime IT Exec for much bigger companies than Nokia I see them making major mistakes, and what is worse displaying some arrogance towards dissenting opinion.

You may consider these dead issues, but if Nokia does not listen to user opinion if not for new releases of this product, then at least for future product, then maybe the product range will die! There is huge competition out there, and they have already lost a huge chunk of corporate users to Blackberry. Watch out Nokia!!

---

My mentioning of the post was more in line with your participation and reviewing of the forum, this thread in particular. Now that you have mentioned that fact that you have read the thread, my previous statement is withdrawn. If you took offense, my bad.

To the issues, as you know as an IT person, some times you reach a point of diminishing returns on an investment. Nokia never produced the faxing client on the earlier devices. Someone else did, and this someone else has decided to no longer support Symbian devices. Period, point blank. Full stop. Nokia is not going to develop the software and many to most companies are "visionary" in that fax is an old technology that is making way for digital certificates, PKI's, biometrics, etc... While your solution may be practical and doable, it will only service a very small, select market which Nokia is not going after. For them to lose this small market but gain a larger base of customers, Nokia higher-ups have deemed this as a smart biz decision. Who knows?

As for the title of mobile visionary, you can take this up with the moderators. However, with my IT, Satellite, GSM, IT Security experience, I will be willing to match you topic for topic and we can see who can keep up. Sorry if you do not like what I say but they are the facts as I see them. If you are not happy with this, by all means file a complaint with the mods.

With that being said, I will no longer respond or entertain any additional comments from you. Good luck and I hope you get the "device" that you are looking for.

Message Edited by sapporobaby on 18-Jul-2008 07:33 PM

[sapporobaby]

To the person giving me negative ratings. Guess what? They do not matter anymore. So rate this one negative as well.

ROFLMAO

Message Edited by sapporobaby on 18-Jul-2008 08:00 PM

[bg22]

I think anyone who thinks the E90 is a toy has got a screw loose... OK, so it's different from previous Communicators in quite a few ways, but come on, a toy!!

Whether anyone likes it or not, S80 was always going to be killed, simply because it was too expensive for Nokia to maintain, and continue updating, S40, S60 and S80; something had to give, and in this case, it was the interface with the least number of users. Perhaps S80 was a lot better, but get over it, it's gone and it ain't coming back.

It's the same with the keyboard; someone said that an earlier Communicator had a much better keyboard. While I'm sure it probably did, it probably weighed twice as much as well, something which would be acceptable in today's market...

[sapporobaby]

Better be careful dude. You will get a negative mark that does not matter anyway.

Still ROFLMAO

[mortenandersen]

S60 must be developed to be so mature and rich of features (tasks that can be performed and visioned) as the dead S80 was.

BTW, I think it is possible to make a good keyboard (with proper distance between the keys and a good enough travel, feeling of the key being pressed) without giving the device more weight...
But it surely demands a minimum of space, so there is a limit of how small good device can be, and still be good to write on. I think many users will prefer a big enough keyboard, as long as the device as a whole still is pocketable with regard to weight and size.

And I don´t think such a device only will appeal to a few. I think it will not appeal to a small niche in the market - on the contrary: Many people these days are looking for just this kind of device.

[jafores]

Whether anyone likes it or not, S80 was always going to be killed, simply because it was too expensive for Nokia to maintain, and continue updating, S40, S60 and S80; something had to give, and in this case, it was the interface with the least number of users. Perhaps S80 was a lot better, but get over it, it's gone and it ain't coming back.

The S80 may have had the least usage in terms of numbers, but the MARKET it served, i think represents a very significant segment. Im sure mercedes benz still uses a large part of its R&D budget to develop its S class even if it "serves" the smallest market segment in its clientel base. When they tried to cut corners and build the s class like their more basic line the market reacted. what you see in the previous posts is market reaction. Very soon market reaction will be reprsented by increased market share for the competitors in this segment.

[gemini632003]

S60 is the way of the future now, before the e90 I use to think the UIQ symbian OS was superior.

[bg22]

I had a P910i for 3 years, before getting my E90. I liked the 910, and I quite like UIQ, but, having come from a basic phone and a Psion 5mx, I found that I missed the QWERTY keyboard. The E90 is, in my opinion, a fantastic phone; however, I never had an S80 phone, so I have no real experience of this platform, other than having played with a friend's 9300.

While it is clear that the E90 does things quite differently from S80 devices, which has obviously annoyed a fair few people, this insistence that the E90 is "not a Communicator" is getting quite tedious. To me, the solution is simple; if you don't like the E90, stop whingeing and get something else (in all likelihood WM powered) and then see how you get on... From what I have seen and read, many of the "E90 killers" are anything but...

[sapporobaby]

@bg22,

That is the point I have been making this entire thread. If you do not like the E90, then sell it, get something else. Nokia is not going to go back to S80 for a few people. There is no perfect phone. I have the new iPhone and it is lacking but I knew what I was getting before I paid my money. Any of the problems I have, I send them to customer service and drive on. You will get serial complainers no matter what product is released. The difference is some are well informed while others purchase, then get home to realize that they have something that is not meant for them and then comes the finger point and blame dispersal.

[jafores]

bg22

You Make a good point that has been said many times in many different ways by many people, and as many people like you with your opinion, valid as it may seem, you will also find as many people like me, AVID and Loyal Nokia Users who are LOST as they do not have a percieved (by Them) viable upgrade path. WE do not whine cause we have nothing better to do with our time, WE Make our views known and defend them here in this forum as it is the tool given by NOKIA for AVID AND LOYAL USERS to Give feedback. thing is they did not differentiate between good and bad feedback.The reason I have been using every form of the Communicator since my first 9110 is because I appreciate its form and function. SO THE LAST THING I WANT TO DO IS COMPLAIN for the sake of complaining. we just want nokia to get our feedback.

thanks

[sapporobaby]

Hi Jafores,

Hope you are well. Long time. Your posts are ALWAYS a great voice of reason. I can agree with you that the E90 is lacking in some features but (my opinion) these features are most likely deemed no longer needed or useful. Take fax for instance, if there was a money making Market someone would figure a way to have a native client however as there no longer is one Nokia decided against putting a fax capable modem in the E90. Not to mention the networks(3g) do not readily support fax. I am also sure Nokia hears your comments but in most cases it is not financially feasible for them to accompdate everyone and they took the middle of the road even at the expense of losing what they may consider a small share of enterprise customers.